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Changes for page Common Arguments

Last modified by Ryan C on 2025/08/18 01:13

From 12.1 to 11.1 From 25.1 to 24.1

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--{{success}}
--These drop down style arguments are done using the expandable macro. Simply edit the page and type /expandable (it will open a selection box)
--{{/success}}
++{{zone document="space.myth1"/}}
--{{expandable summary="We will all become one uniform Mixed Race"}}
--Claim: Over time, humanity will homogenize into one race of mixed-race individuals due to globalization and intermixing.
--Rebuttal:
++# Myth 1: "We will all blend into one race of mixed-race individuals."
--Blending into one race assumes uniform mixing across all populations, which is unlikely due to societal, cultural, and geographical barriers.
--Historical evidence shows that distinct ethnic groups have maintained separate identities for millennia despite some intermixing.
--High birth rates among certain populations mean some ethnic groups will likely persist as dominant demographics in specific regions.
--Explanation: The idea that humanity will blend into one homogenous race oversimplifies the reality of demographic trends. Different populations have maintained their distinct identities for centuries, even under conditions of migration and intermixing. For example, despite centuries of migration into Europe, distinct ethnicities like the Basques or Sami people still exist. Additionally, demographic trends show that fertility rates vary significantly across groups, meaning some populations grow faster than others. For instance, many African and Middle Eastern countries have much higher birth rates than Europe or East Asia, making a global "blending" implausible. Societies naturally form cultural and ethnic distinctions, even when migration occurs
++**Claim:** Over time, humanity will homogenize into one race of mixed-race individuals due to globalization and intermixing.
--[[See also: White Genocide for statistics on this>>doc:Main Categories.Race.White Genocide.WebHome]]
--{{/expandable}}
++**Rebuttal:**
--{{expandable summary="There is no discrimination against White people"}}
--**Claim:** DEI is necessary to address historical inequities and does not disadvantage white men.
++* Blending into one race assumes uniform mixing across all populations, which is unlikely due to societal, cultural, and geographical barriers.
++* Historical evidence shows that distinct ethnic groups have maintained separate identities for millennia despite some intermixing.
++* High birth rates among certain populations mean some ethnic groups will likely persist as dominant demographics in specific regions.
--**Rebuttal:**
++**Explanation:** The idea that humanity will blend into one homogenous race oversimplifies the reality of demographic trends. Different populations have maintained their distinct identities for centuries, even under conditions of migration and intermixing. For example, despite centuries of migration into Europe, distinct ethnicities like the Basques or Sami people still exist. Additionally, demographic trends show that fertility rates vary significantly across groups, meaning some populations grow faster than others. For instance, many African and Middle Eastern countries have much higher birth rates than Europe or East Asia, making a global "blending" implausible. Societies naturally form cultural and ethnic distinctions, even when migration occurs.
--* DEI initiatives often include hiring quotas or preferences that explicitly exclude white men, creating new forms of systemic bias.
--* Surveys and anecdotal evidence show that many companies deprioritize white male candidates to meet diversity metrics.
--* Addressing historical inequities doesn’t justify creating new disparities, particularly when these policies fail to account for merit.
++-----
--**Explanation:** This defense of DEI initiatives ignores the tangible harm they cause to individuals. I point to real-world examples where DEI policies lead to explicit discrimination. Companies like Coca-Cola have implemented training programs encouraging employees to "be less white," and countless hiring managers admit they deprioritize white male candidates to meet diversity quotas. These policies often overlook merit and qualifications, instead prioritizing characteristics like race or gender. While addressing historical inequities seems a noble goal, creating new inequalities that disadvantage people today doesn’t solve past injustices—it only shifts the harm to a new group.
--{{/expandable}}
++# Myth 2: "You cant determine who is White because people can be mixed, who really is White??"
--{{expandable summary="IQ disparities across groups are entirely due to environment"}}
--**Claim:** Differences in IQ between groups are solely the result of environmental factors, dismissing any genetic contribution.
++**Claim**: "White as a racial classification doesn't exist"
++**Rebuttal**: White is just short for of European Descent, it doesnt mean skin color
++
  ## Relevant Studies##
--* [[Rushton2005>>attach:Main Categories.Science & Research.Research at a Glance.Studies\: IQ.WebHome@rushton2005 OCR.pdf]]
++* [[Self Identification of race is over 99% effective|attach:GeneticStructureSelfIdentifiedRaceEthnicityAndConfoundingInCase-ControlAssociationStudies.pdf]] [Study](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1196372/)
--**Rebuttal:**
++**Explanation**:
--* While environmental factors (e.g., nutrition, education) influence IQ, genetic factors also play a significant role in group differences.
--* The Flynn Effect demonstrates rising IQs over time due to environmental improvements, but it does not negate underlying genetic differences.
--* Studies consistently show both genetic and environmental contributions to IQ, and ignoring one oversimplifies the issue.
++Who is white?
--**Explanation:** While environmental factors such as better nutrition and education do affect IQ, they don’t fully explain group differences. For instance, the Flynn Effect shows that average IQs have risen globally due to environmental improvements, but group differences remain consistent. Genetics play a significant role alongside the environment. Studies on twins, for example, demonstrate that IQ is highly heritable. Ignoring this fact in favor of a purely environmental explanation is intellectually dishonest. It’s not about dismissing environmental factors but about acknowledging the complex interplay of genetics and environment in shaping intelligence.
++What constitutes a White person?
--
--{{/expandable}}
++"White" is synonymous with indigenous European. Race is not nationality. Race is genetic.
--{{expandable summary="Culture is what matters not race"}}
--**Claim**: Shared ancestry among Europeans is irrelevant to their cultural unity.
++Arabs are not White. Persians are not White. Turkic are not White. Jews are not White. Huns/Mongolians are not White. Berbers are not White (but possible were before the invasion of the Arabs). Because these are the closest groups to us genetically, it is possible to be White and have a minority of these genetics. But race mixing is discouraged due to the harmful effects on the offspring and society.
--**Rebuttal**:
++We use "White" because it is common usage. Indigenous European is a much better term, which you should adopt.
--* Shared ancestry provides a foundation for common values, language development, and traditions.
--* Historical cooperation among European groups shows the importance of shared ancestry in forming alliances and cultural bonds.
--* Genetic studies reveal that Europeans share significant ancestry, reinforcing their cultural cohesion.
++But aren’t there no clear biological boundaries between races or ethnicities?
--**Explanation**:
++This is known as the continuum fallacy.
--Shared ancestry isn’t just a biological fact but a cultural cornerstone. For instance, European nations have historically formed alliances based on shared ethnic and cultural identities. Language families like the Indo-European group stem from this common ancestry, creating linguistic and cultural links across nations. Ignoring this connection overlooks a key factor in how civilizations form cohesive identities over time. Shared ancestry provides the framework upon which shared values and traditions are built, making it integral to cultural unity.
--{{/expandable}}
++Like many others things in nature, there are no exact boundaries to this concept. Visit a sandy beach, and tell us where the ocean ends and land begins. View a photo of the Andromeda Galaxy, and point to where the galaxy ends, and intergalactic space begins. Where does the color red begin and when does it change to orange? All such boundaries must be arbitrary at some point.
-- {{expandable summary="You just hate people who don't look like you."}}
--**Claim:** Advocacy for Whites is rooted in hatred toward other races.
++You devolve into utter nihilism if you try to argue we should not have taxonomy because of this arbitrariness. The human mind works, at a core level, with groupings. Being against categorization based on arbitrariness or social constructionism is to say you think we should not have almost any groupings, including rock formations. There would be few exceptions. Perhaps prime numbers.
--**Rebuttal:**
--* If hatred were the goal, it would involve destroying other races, not defending one’s own.
--* It is White people being targeted with demographic flooding, not others.
--* Preservation of one’s group is not equivalent to hate for others.
++Calling someone "white" or "black" is figurative language. Arguing that people aren't actually "white" like paper is like arguing that people cannot really have "smooth" skin, or could not possible have a "heart of gold," as gold is a metal and can't pump blood.
--**Explanation:**
--Saying “you just hate people who don’t look like you” is a strawman. White advocates are not asking for the destruction of others, but for the right of their own group to survive. True hatred would look like conquest or erasure of others. The reality is that anti-White policies are creating conditions that erase Whites, and pointing that out is survival, not hate.
--{{/expandable}}
++If you look white and identify as white, you are white. If you possess so much non white admixture as to feel the need to mention it, you probably aren't white. And if you tell us you aren't white we will believe you. People who self identify as any racial group have been shown to belong to that racial group over 99% of the time.
--{{expandable summary="We don’t demand that the whole world be white."}}
--**Claim:** Whites demand that everyone assimilate into whiteness.
++-----
++# Myth 3: "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives don’t harm white men."
++
++**Claim:** DEI is necessary to address historical inequities and does not disadvantage white men.
++
  **Rebuttal:**
--* Whites are not demanding the elimination of other peoples.
--* It is anti-Whites who demand that every White nation becomes non-White.
--* The double standard exposes who is really forcing assimilation.
--**Explanation:**
--White advocacy is about preservation, not conquest. Anti-Whites constantly invert the accusation, pretending that Whites want the whole world to be White, when in reality Whites only ask for the right to maintain their own homelands and identity. The demand for a non-White world is entirely one-sided.
--{{/expandable}}
++* DEI initiatives often include hiring quotas or preferences that explicitly exclude white men, creating new forms of systemic bias.
++* Surveys and anecdotal evidence show that many companies deprioritize white male candidates to meet diversity metrics.
++* Addressing historical inequities doesn’t justify creating new disparities, particularly when these policies fail to account for merit.
--{{expandable summary="No one's forcing assimilation."}}
--**Claim:** Intermixing happens voluntarily, not by force.
++**Explanation:** This defense of DEI initiatives ignores the tangible harm they cause to individuals. I point to real-world examples where DEI policies lead to explicit discrimination. Companies like Coca-Cola have implemented training programs encouraging employees to "be less white," and countless hiring managers admit they deprioritize white male candidates to meet diversity quotas. These policies often overlook merit and qualifications, instead prioritizing characteristics like race or gender. While addressing historical inequities seems a noble goal, creating new inequalities that disadvantage people today doesn’t solve past injustices—it only shifts the harm to a new group.
--**Rebuttal:**
--* White communities are denied the freedom to remain White-only.
--* Legal, cultural, and economic pressure enforces forced integration.
--* UN law defines genocide as including coerced conditions of destruction.
++-----
--**Explanation:**
--The argument that “no one’s forcing” ignores the reality: every White nation is pressured through laws, policies, and propaganda to accept mass immigration and assimilation. Under UN Resolution 260, deliberately creating conditions that erase a people is genocide, regardless of whether it involves direct violence.
--{{/expandable}}
++# Myth 4: "IQ disparities across groups are purely environmental."
--{{expandable summary="Have more babies."}}
--**Claim:** Whites can solve the problem of replacement by reproducing more.
++**Claim:** Differences in IQ between groups are solely the result of environmental factors, dismissing any genetic contribution.
++## Relevant Studies##
++
++* [[Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability|attach:Main.Studies.Rushton-Jensen30years\.pdf@Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf]]
++[[Study PDF|attach:Main.Studies.Rushton-Jensen30years\.pdf@Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf]]
++
  **Rebuttal:**
--* Telling one group to “breed or die” while enforcing policies that erase them is genocidal.
--* Declining fertility does not justify importing tens of millions of non-Whites.
--* The argument itself admits that genocidal conditions are in place.
--**Explanation:**
--Birth rates fluctuate throughout history, but no other people is told their fertility justifies their eradication. Whites are uniquely targeted with policies that replace them under the excuse of “low birth rates.” This reveals genocidal intent.
--{{/expandable}}
++* While environmental factors (e.g., nutrition, education) influence IQ, genetic factors also play a significant role in group differences.
++* The Flynn Effect demonstrates rising IQs over time due to environmental improvements, but it does not negate underlying genetic differences.
++* Studies consistently show both genetic and environmental contributions to IQ, and ignoring one oversimplifies the issue.
--{{expandable summary="America is a nation of immigrants."}}
--**Claim:** America is uniquely a “nation of immigrants,” so mass migration today is natural.
++**Explanation:** While environmental factors such as better nutrition and education do affect IQ, they don’t fully explain group differences. For instance, the Flynn Effect shows that average IQs have risen globally due to environmental improvements, but group differences remain consistent. Genetics play a significant role alongside the environment. Studies on twins, for example, demonstrate that IQ is highly heritable. Ignoring this fact in favor of a purely environmental explanation is intellectually dishonest. It’s not about dismissing environmental factors but about acknowledging the complex interplay of genetics and environment in shaping intelligence.- Study
--**Rebuttal:**
--* Every nation has ancestors who came from elsewhere. That does not erase national identity.
--* Immigration is not unique to America and does not justify replacement of the founding stock.
--* The phrase is used selectively to push anti-White policies.
++-----
--**Explanation:**
--Saying America is a “nation of immigrants” is rhetorical sleight of hand. It ignores that every people originated somewhere. What matters is who founded and built the country. Immigration today is not the same as nation-building, and it does not justify White genocide.
--{{/expandable}}
++# Myth 5: "We’re all equally 'centered' on the map."
--{{expandable summary="Stop trying to divide us."}}
--**Claim:** Talking about race is what creates division.
++**Claim:** Maps are arbitrary, with no true center, and that concepts like "the West" are socially constructed.
  **Rebuttal:**
--* Multiracial societies are inherently divided along racial lines.
--* Those who flood White countries with mass immigration are responsible for division.
--* The more diversity, the more racial politics dominates.
--**Explanation:**
--Blaming Whites for “division” reverses cause and effect. Division arises because diversity is imposed on Whites against their will. Every multiracial society demonstrates that racial conflict is inevitable when groups with competing interests are forced together.
--{{/expandable}}
++* Maps are tools reflecting cultural and historical perspectives. While arbitrary in design, they reflect real-world geopolitical and historical contexts.
++* Western civilization, as a concept, emerged from shared historical, cultural, and geographic ties among European nations, not purely from arbitrary map placement.
++* The idea of a "center" in geography often reflects dominance in culture or power rather than physical location.
--{{expandable summary="Identity politics is the problem."}}
--**Claim:** Political conflict comes from identity politics, not immigration.
++**Explanation:** While maps are technically arbitrary in their design, they reflect historical realities. I pointed out that the concept of "the West" isn’t about physical geography but shared cultural, historical, and ethnic ties among European nations. For instance, Europe appears at the center of many maps because European empires dominated global politics and trade for centuries. The geographic "center" reflects historical dominance, not an inherent truth. This is why maps vary based on cultural perspective—what’s arbitrary in design is grounded in historical reality.
--**Rebuttal:**
--* All politics in multiracial countries becomes identity politics.
--* Non-Whites are loyal to their groups; only Whites are told not to be.
--* Diversity is what drives identity politics.
++-----
--**Explanation:**
--It is dishonest to blame identity politics itself, while ignoring the cause: forced diversity. When you mix peoples with different interests, politics becomes tribal. Whites are singled out as the only group forbidden to defend themselves while everyone else is encouraged to practice group loyalty.
--{{/expandable}}
++# Myth 6: "Multicultural empires are models for modern society."
--{{expandable summary="Hate speech is not free speech."}}
--**Claim:** Restricting “hate speech” protects society.
++**Claim:** Antiwhites point to historical empires (e.g., Ottoman Empire, Roman Empire, and even to the UAE and America today.) as examples of successful multiculturalism.
  **Rebuttal:**
--* Every tyranny justifies censorship by labeling dissent as dangerous.
--* The current anti-White system censors truth under the guise of “hate.”
--* Free speech protections were meant for unpopular opinions, not state-approved ones.
--**Explanation:**
--Calling speech “hate” is a tool of repression. It is not about safety, but about silencing opposition to anti-White policies. Censorship is always framed as moral, but its effect is to protect the reigning power and punish dissent.
--{{/expandable}}
++* Multicultural empires often succeeded by enforcing strict hierarchies and suppressing dissent, rather than promoting equality.
++* The Ottoman Empire relied on systems like the millet system to segregate communities, not integrate them.
++* The Roman Empire assimilated conquered peoples but maintained a dominant Roman identity, often through force and structural inequality.
--{{expandable summary="One brown person down the street isn't genocide."}}
--**Claim:** Genocide is exaggerated because a single non-White doesn’t constitute a threat.
++**Explanation:** The examples of multicultural empires like the Ottomans and Romans fail to support Aurenvale’s argument. These empires maintain stability through control and segregation rather than true integration. The Ottomans used the millet system to segregate religious groups and maintain hierarchy, while the Romans forcibly assimilated conquered peoples under the dominance of Roman identity. The UAE has a very strict system of governance that you can't partake in if you are a foreigner even. So while the UAE is one of the only examples of "successful" multiculturalism, it retains complete control over its nation by rigid ethnic separation of its people from the foreign people that make up the majority of the population. As for America, it can attribute its success to the homogeneity it maintained from its founding until the [hart celler act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965) These models don’t reflect modern ideals of equality—they relied on structural inequality to sustain their rule. Modern societies aiming for coexistence need entirely different approaches than those used by historical empires.
--**Rebuttal:**
--* No one argues that one person equals genocide.
--* The issue is mass immigration plus forced assimilation in every White country.
--* Strawman arguments are used to distract from the real claim.
++-----
--**Explanation:**
--Anti-Whites misrepresent the position deliberately. The argument is not about individuals but about demographic replacement through policy. Under international law, coordinated replacement policies meet the definition of genocide. Pretending it’s about “one person” is dishonest deflection.
--{{/expandable}}
++# Myth 7: "Arab nations are part of Western civilization."
--{{expandable summary="Genocide means killing. Whites aren't being killed."}}
--**Claim:** Genocide only applies to physical mass killings.
++**Claim**: Arab nations could be considered part of Western civilization because of shared practices like Christianity and trade.
++**Rebuttal**:
++
++* Western civilization is defined by specific historical and cultural developments in Europe, not by shared religious practices alone.
++* While some Arab nations were historically Christian, they do not share the philosophical, legal, and cultural traditions that define the West.
++* Trade relations with the West don’t equate to cultural integration.
++
++**Explanation**: Arab nations, while historically engaged with the West through trade and religion, do not form part of Western civilization. Western civilization is rooted in European history—the Enlightenment, Greco-Roman heritage, and unique cultural and legal systems. Even during periods of Christian dominance in certain Arab regions, their cultural and societal structures remained distinct from the West. Christianity alone doesn’t define Western identity, and trade interactions were just that—transactions, not cultural amalgamations.
++
++# Myth 8: "Christianity is the sole unifier of Western civilization."
++
++**Claim:** Christianity culturally united the West against the "non-West" and formed the foundation of Western identity.
++
  **Rebuttal:**
--* UN law defines genocide to include deliberate conditions of destruction, not just killing.
--* Forced assimilation and mass immigration fall under this definition.
--* Historical precedent (Raphael Lemkin’s definition) explicitly included non-lethal methods.
--**Explanation:**
--Genocide is not limited to killing. UN Resolution 260 and Lemkin’s own words include sterilization, displacement, and policies designed to erase a group’s identity and existence. Anti-White policies meet this definition precisely.
--{{/expandable}}
++* Christianity is one of many factors that shaped Western civilization, but it is not the sole unifier. Shared ancestry, cultural values, and historical cooperation among European groups also played a role.
++* Christianity itself originated in the Middle East and is practiced globally, including by non-Western cultures (e.g., Arab Christians).
++* Other elements of Western civilization, such as the Enlightenment, Greco-Roman heritage, and scientific development, are independent of Christianity.
++**Explanation:** While Christianity undeniably influenced Western civilization, it’s not the only or even primary unifying factor. I pointed out that shared ancestry among Europeans (e.g., Lithuanians and Spaniards) creates a deeper sense of unity than religion alone. Christianity, as a Middle Eastern-origin religion, is also practiced by Arabs, Ethiopians, and other non-European peoples, which contradicts the notion of it being unique to the West. Furthermore, Western civilization is just as deeply rooted in the secular achievements of the Enlightenment, Greek philosophy, and Roman governance, none of which rely on Christianity. Reducing Western unity to Christianity alone ignores these crucial cultural and historical pillars.
++# Myth 9: "Common ancestry doesn’t matter for cultural unity."
++
++**Claim**: Shared ancestry among Europeans is irrelevant to their cultural unity.
++
++**Rebuttal**:
++
++* Shared ancestry provides a foundation for common values, language development, and traditions.
++* Historical cooperation among European groups shows the importance of shared ancestry in forming alliances and cultural bonds.
++* Genetic studies reveal that Europeans share significant ancestry, reinforcing their cultural cohesion.
++
++**Explanation**:
++
++Shared ancestry isn’t just a biological fact but a cultural cornerstone. For instance, European nations have historically formed alliances based on shared ethnic and cultural identities. Language families like the Indo-European group stem from this common ancestry, creating linguistic and cultural links across nations. Ignoring this connection overlooks a key factor in how civilizations form cohesive identities over time. Shared ancestry provides the framework upon which shared values and traditions are built, making it integral to cultural unity.